I think the phrase of John's (MacArthur, not the Apostle) that stops me the hardest is "Nothing less can qualify as saving faith".
How do we reconcile that to Luke 18 where Jesus answers his disciples "whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it"? Does this childlike faith meet John's standard of a complete sacrifice of self to the Lordship of Christ over all aspects of one's life? Try telling a 6-year-old that and see what you get.
This does not mean that such a desire ought not be the objective of maturity for every believer, but I cannot put such at the same level as the essentials of the gospel. If I reject the deity of Christ, you have an argument. If I'm still holding on to control over some aspect of my life, I may need help but it doesn't mean I'm not saved. Maybe I need some loving correction from a brother, not but evangelizing.
As humans we tend to be reactive. When John was early in his ministry, the error of easy-believism was rampant. So I get why he would fight against it.
But we can't pile an impossible task onto the conscience of a believer as a mark of the veracity of their conversion.
Do I long for the day when my will is as perfectly subjected to His as He demonstrated that His is to the Father's? A thousand times YES!
Will I ever be there this side of eternity - 1001 times NO!
But I ought not judge my conversion (or worse, my brother's) on the extent to which it is true. I trust this was not John's motivation, nor am I saying this is the position of everyone who espouses it, but it really smacks of elitism. "I'm confident in my salvation because of my maturity. You should doubt yours because of your immaturity." Yikes!
Good question. I think the answer is asking yourself if you currently accept and believe the gospel. Do you trust Jesus for your salvation? If so, you are saved. If you are saved, you are elect. If you are not saved, you may or may not be elect. Only God knows. But if you are saved, you are elect. That is my belief.
I think you misunderstand Johns thoughts on Lordship salvation. He definitely does not teach works contribute to one’s salvation. Have you read his book The Gospel according to Jesus?
Or The Gospel according to Paul?
Or The Gospel according to the Apostles?
Or The Gospel according to God?
He makes sound thoroughly biblical arguments for his understanding of what true saving faith is.
I quote you - Christian, you know the gospel. You know, it was a gift. And you know that you really do want God to be Lord over every area of your life.
That’s all JMac taught.
I don’t think one of you is teaching a false gospel (as you say).
Maybe semantics?
If I had to choose, I choose Jmacs position over yours.
It is hard to argue with the fact that those quotes I used from his book are false doctrine and adding to the gospel. But that’s cool. Each should be convinced in his own mind. Blessings to you.
I think I could argue those points are not false doctrine. I also agree to many of your points. I don’t think they necessarily contradict each other. I
I think the phrase of John's (MacArthur, not the Apostle) that stops me the hardest is "Nothing less can qualify as saving faith".
How do we reconcile that to Luke 18 where Jesus answers his disciples "whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it"? Does this childlike faith meet John's standard of a complete sacrifice of self to the Lordship of Christ over all aspects of one's life? Try telling a 6-year-old that and see what you get.
This does not mean that such a desire ought not be the objective of maturity for every believer, but I cannot put such at the same level as the essentials of the gospel. If I reject the deity of Christ, you have an argument. If I'm still holding on to control over some aspect of my life, I may need help but it doesn't mean I'm not saved. Maybe I need some loving correction from a brother, not but evangelizing.
As humans we tend to be reactive. When John was early in his ministry, the error of easy-believism was rampant. So I get why he would fight against it.
But we can't pile an impossible task onto the conscience of a believer as a mark of the veracity of their conversion.
Do I long for the day when my will is as perfectly subjected to His as He demonstrated that His is to the Father's? A thousand times YES!
Will I ever be there this side of eternity - 1001 times NO!
But I ought not judge my conversion (or worse, my brother's) on the extent to which it is true. I trust this was not John's motivation, nor am I saying this is the position of everyone who espouses it, but it really smacks of elitism. "I'm confident in my salvation because of my maturity. You should doubt yours because of your immaturity." Yikes!
Thanks for the astute and encouraging comment, Jim. God bless, brother.
How does one know they are part of the Elect?
Good question. I think the answer is asking yourself if you currently accept and believe the gospel. Do you trust Jesus for your salvation? If so, you are saved. If you are saved, you are elect. If you are not saved, you may or may not be elect. Only God knows. But if you are saved, you are elect. That is my belief.
I think you misunderstand Johns thoughts on Lordship salvation. He definitely does not teach works contribute to one’s salvation. Have you read his book The Gospel according to Jesus?
Or The Gospel according to Paul?
Or The Gospel according to the Apostles?
Or The Gospel according to God?
He makes sound thoroughly biblical arguments for his understanding of what true saving faith is.
I have read the Gospel According to Jesus and I quote it several times in my original article. Have you read my original article?
https://open.substack.com/pub/stillfinished/p/lie-8-you-have-to-be-willing-to-give?r=1nogra&utm_medium=ios
No but I will and get back to you.
Read it.
I quote you - Christian, you know the gospel. You know, it was a gift. And you know that you really do want God to be Lord over every area of your life.
That’s all JMac taught.
I don’t think one of you is teaching a false gospel (as you say).
Maybe semantics?
If I had to choose, I choose Jmacs position over yours.
Blessings.
It is hard to argue with the fact that those quotes I used from his book are false doctrine and adding to the gospel. But that’s cool. Each should be convinced in his own mind. Blessings to you.
I think I could argue those points are not false doctrine. I also agree to many of your points. I don’t think they necessarily contradict each other. I
respect your interpretation and zeal for truth.